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Author
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Topic: Pollitics and Reality
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K
VoivodFan
Member # 6
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posted August 04, 2002 14:51
    
I agree that the U.S. is also a Terrorist State. The evidence is all around.It is unfortunate that Innocent Americans and Foreigners must suffer for the Crimes of the Government. I agree with probably 90% of what he said in that Interview, however. When it comes to Israel...there are points i disagree on.
I am a supporter of the Innocent Peoples on both sides. There is too much bloodshed. That is all i have to say on the matter because we all have our own very STRONG beliefs when it comes to this touchy issue. I just dont want this to turn into a RAGE topic here.
This Forum is like a quiet little area of PEACE in a world where every type of Business, Industry, Government and Religion...is Fucked Up! Well....it is Peacefull most of the time here.
 Cheers and Safety to all VOIVOD Fans!
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ruiner
VoivodFan
Member # 79
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posted August 05, 2002 02:21
quote:
Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Chomsky said we should have sat around and let a bunch of Afgan insurgents get rid of the Taliban. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That is so stupid and naive.
The civilian population hated the Taliban. They were not just "insurgents", they are real, living, breathing people - who happened to live with a shitty government and a past stained with constant civil war and foreign intervention. I believe the American's once rose up to get rid of the British...it can happen if the people want it enough. I don't want to get into a shit fight...this ain't the forum for this. Noam Chomsky is EXTREMELY well regarded in every Western country bar America (for obvious reasons). He is required reading here in Australia for anyone studying Media or Communications at University. Check out "Maunfacturing Dissent" if you can get hold of a copy. I also recommend any work by John Pilger.
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manipulator
VoivodFan
Member # 12
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posted August 05, 2002 10:20
ah, the very interesting topic of "lies"to this day, the american general public still stand by this 888 pages + xxix book called "The official warren commission report on the assassination of president jonh f. kennedy" published by doubleday in 1964. "First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth"
j.f.k. may 25th 1961 " "Three cheers for the Moon!" roared the Gun Club, with one voice. "
Jules Verne, from the earth to the moon,1865 now, instead of focusing on photograpic anomalies and shadow inconsitancies; read up on the van allen belt, micrometeorites, solar flares and other small details of the sort. be sure to also check out the NEOproject for a good laugh  with current tech, they have got about 5% of 1km objects tracked. reality ? wich level ? don't get me started on mars ! "[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
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K
VoivodFan
Member # 6
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posted August 05, 2002 10:25
Oh, good-grief!  See what you started, Blacky? Now all the Americans & Brits are upset! I have an interresting Observation.
The U.S. has never been at WAR with anything larger than the State of TEXAS!
Think about it! Individually...these could fit within the borders of TEXAS:
Germany
Japan
Korea
Viet Nam
Grenada (HA!)
Somalia
Iraq / Kuwait
Afghanistan (Am i missing anyone?) See what i mean!? Funny, huh? 
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Mr. Phobia
VoivodFan
Member # 66
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posted August 05, 2002 16:50
i find this all to be utter bullshit
many words to say nothing at all
i'm talking about the 2 sides presented by noam and the dude mhead posted comments from
i like to spend my time w/ music and you'll notice that uses few words, if any, and usually to say as much as possible
chumsky did say something very useful though
you must see your faults before judging another's
when "9/11" happened, the first thing i thought was "wonder why they're mad?"
i think a lot of other people were thinking: "revenge!"
bottom line: america and like countries are fucking pigs who need to slop up oil and we have a presence in the countries that have it to ensure our glut
they are insanely religious and don't like us traipsing on their "holy grounds"
it all seems insanely primitive to me
i welcome any negative comments towards this post and/or someone setting me straight on the subject because, as i stated, i don't spend time thinking it over, so i may be a tad flawed in my perceptionsinteresting posts all ye w/in this thread i do get kind of irked about the "right wing" or whatever you call rush limbaugh and that o'reilly dude, hence my post, but i'm not looking for a fight, just information course, i completely hate all politics
more power to K's post
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Mezcalhead
VoivodFan
Member # 26
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posted August 05, 2002 17:27
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Phobia:
i find this all to be utter bullshit
many words to say nothing at all
i'm talking about the 2 sides presented by noam and the dude mhead posted comments from
i like to spend my time w/ music and you'll notice that uses few words, if any, and usually to say as much as possible
chumsky did say something very useful though
you must see your faults before judging another's
when "9/11" happened, the first thing i thought was "wonder why they're mad?"
i think a lot of other people were thinking: "revenge!"
bottom line: america and like countries are fucking pigs who need to slop up oil and we have a presence in the countries that have it to ensure our glut
they are insanely religious and don't like us traipsing on their "holy grounds"
it all seems insanely primitive to me
i welcome any negative comments towards this post and/or someone setting me straight on the subject because, as i stated, i don't spend time thinking it over, so i may be a tad flawed in my perceptionsinteresting posts all ye w/in this thread i do get kind of irked about the "right wing" or whatever you call rush limbaugh and that o'reilly dude, hence my post, but i'm not looking for a fight, just information course, i completely hate all politics
more power to K's post
Phobia, read this last section of the Hitchen's quote from above: The figure of six and a half thousand murders in New York is almost the exact equivalent to the total uncovered in the death-pits of Srebrenica. (Even at Srebrenica, the demented General Ratko Mladic agreed to release all the women, all the children, all the old people and all the males above and below military age before ordering his squads to fall to work.) On that occasion, US satellites flew serenely overhead recording the scene, and Milosevic earned himself an invitation to Dayton, Ohio. But in the end, after appalling false starts and delays, it was found that Mr Milosevic was too much. He wasn't just too nasty. He was also too irrational and dangerous. He didn't even save himself by lyingly claiming, as he several times did, that Osama bin Laden was hiding in Bosnia. It must be said that by this, and by other lies and numberless other atrocities, Milosevic distinguished himself as an enemy of Islam. His national-socialist regime took the line on the towelheads that the Bush Administration is only accused, by fools and knaves, of taking. Yet when a stand was eventually mounted against Milosevic, it was Noam Chomsky and Sam Husseini, among many others, who described the whole business as a bullying persecution of--the Serbs! I have no hesitation in describing this mentality, carefully and without heat, as soft on crime and soft on fascism. No political coalition is possible with such people and, I'm thankful to say, no political coalition with them is now necessary. It no longer matters what they think.}
Basically what he is saying is that when the US started coming after Milosevic, Chommie boy was criticizing the US actions. "The bullying persecution of the Serbs" he called it. This is the insanity I was talking about and why I called him a chump(also has a nice flow-chomsky, chump). So Chommie vocally supports a government(Serbs)who actually carried out(the murders of six thousand Muslims)and then makes this completely bogus claim that Bush wanted to attack the civilian population of Afganistan.
And what they are saying is quite important. Because these people are intellectuals, and governments turn to intellectuals like them for advice on how to create new policy or change old policies. And these policies shape(or misshape) people's lives. So it is very important for us to keep up to date on what the pundits are saying.
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Mr. Phobia
VoivodFan
Member # 66
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posted August 06, 2002 17:12
thanks for replying, mezcalhead
my post was meant as a "i think solos are a bunch of wanking" for this thread
i think i see the issue, now
chumpsky is accusing the u.s. of world police brutality, right?
my opinion: nutcases come to power and they need to be deposed (power/absolute power/corrupts/absolutely)but i think this hitchins is reading too much into the "9/11" terrorist's plot, if i'm understanding him right
the trade towers are the tallest thing ever and therefore easy,easy targets and also symbolic
as are the pentagon and white house
i think it was a primitive plan warning: this post may be the result of an oversimplified point of view
quote:
Something in me was telling all the time: "impossible"
yes, this is a point glenn danzig loves to bring up repeatedly
there will always be war and violence
that is reality
i don't think he's saying if that's a good or bad thing but it is a fact of life
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blacky
VoivodFan
Member # 2
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posted August 06, 2002 23:24
All I can say in regards of Noam Chomsky point of view is that I think he is absolutely right on this: we need a better level of basic morality. To put it simply, we need to grow-up as a civilization.Anybody read the Atlantic Monthly? There is an interesting article about the WTC disaster. At one point they mention an expert saying that a major contributor in bringing down the tower was not the plane impact nor the kerosene, but that it was ordinary paper feeding the fire which brought the temperatures as high as 2,000 degrees celsius, very interesting, they also say that the kerosene burned through entirely within four minutes. There is also a not surprising revelation about errant firemen, policemen, or construction workers implicated in a widespread pattern of looting that started even before the towers fell, and later office computers were stolen from the Deutsche Bank.
There is a second article in the newest issue of the magazine, can't wait to read it.
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