7 days with no food or water is just insane and i can't understand 'or even want to' understand how they have came to a decision on that. sometimes i think it should be the parents and families choice and other times i dont. But like i said i just don't know what to make of it.

Anything is better than this torture she has to sustain for those days and being on top of the allready tortured state she is living in, if i got this right she is not brain dead and it is actually her brain that is keeping her alive. And the brain is the embodiment of our consciencness and our essence so i dont think they should do that to her, and specially the starve her to death. It would make more sense to have given her a lethal injection.

I feel deeply for her husband and family.

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Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Amazing how the state of Florida is legally killing this defenseless woman based on scant medical evidence.

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25% of her brain is liquefied. If you want, you can find her CAT scans on the internet (which I find loathsome, but there you go). She has no cerebral cortex (that's the bit which provides us with more than just reflex actions). She has no will, she cannot feel anything or do anything without the aid of machines.

But pro-life campaigners and the "anti-big-government" Bushies have to keep her going, against the wishes of the courts, her doctors, and her legal guardian (her husband). Because, you see, even when your brain is sloshing around in spinal fliud, you are "alive", and must be retained thus. Even when you can't move, speak, feel or eat.

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Terri is not "brain dead," as headlines and news stories describe her. In fact, 14 independent medical professionals (six of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state. Her family foundation website notes that she "responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation, and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposely with her environment."

Terri is not on life-support systems, such as a respirator, which could be construed as "over-zealous" treatment, disproportionate to the expected outcome. She does have a gastric feeding tube, which is connected only at meal times. But the existence of a feeding tube does not magically metamorphose Terri from a human to a "houseplant," which is what Michael's lawyer and euthanasia advocate, George Felos, compared her to.

Bobby Schindler, Jr., Terri's brother, has been fighting to save his sister's life for many years. "I never realized how insidious these death groups are," said Bobby, relating how, prior to his sister's crisis, he considered abortion the main issue on the pro-death agenda. Now he sees euthanasia as an equal threat to our country. One of the main ways the pro-euthanasia groups promote their agenda, said Schindler, is by presenting their victims as non-persons.

According to a spokesman for the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children, a British pro-life group, "The persistent vegetative state is increasingly referred to simply as the vegetative state. The use of vegetative in these expressions is gravely misleading since it suggests that a person in such a condition has somehow ceased to be human."

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taken from links and a article from the family's website.

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Originally posted by Lycanthropy:
25% of her brain is liquefied. If you want, you can find her CAT scans on the internet (which I find loathsome, but there you go). She has no cerebral cortex (that's the bit which provides us with more than just reflex actions). She has no will, she cannot feel anything or do anything without the aid of machines.

But pro-life campaigners and the "anti-big-government" Bushies have to keep her going, against the wishes of the courts, her doctors, and her legal guardian (her husband). Because, you see, even when your brain is sloshing around in spinal fliud, you are "alive", and must be retained thus. Even when you can't move, speak, feel or eat.

Is that life?

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A lot of what you're saying has not been "proven" as factual and is still open to debate among neurologists some of whom are saying even limited rehabilitation is a possibility. I've even read where the vegetative state is debated.

Though I do suspect they will eventually come to the same conclusion as her husband and doctors. Maybe spending time with their daughter will give them the peace and resolution they need to let her go, which is what really should be happening in a situation such as this. Let's not forget it's been nearly 15 years, it's not like this woman was just admitted to the hospital or anything.

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But why so eager to kill Lync (and in such a brutal fashion)? What would the harm be in turning her over to her parents to love and care for her.

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I think you might be getting me wrong. I'm only trying to defend the fact that it is her legal guardian, her husband Michael's right to decide. He claims she didn't want to live like that, I'm inclined to believe him - and it is no-one else's right to decide.

Also, the issue of her parents. What are their motives? They want to love her and care for her, sure - but are they thinking of her, or of themselves? I don't know. I won't claim to know.

Also, I'm coloured by personal feelings a bit - I know that I wouldn't want to exist like that, and having been roughly in the same place with my own grandfather over the last few weeks, I'm more tempted to err on the side of a peaceful end to her suffering than to continue her non-existence.

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A lot of what you're saying has not been "proven" as factual and is still open to debate among neurologists some of whom are saying even limited rehabilitation is a possibility.

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Yes, but some scientists still say that smoking doesn't cause cancer, despite the vast quantities of empirical evidence to the contrary.

I think there's perhaps too much wishful thinking from the other side. When the entirety of the part of your brain which controls independent thought is gone, I don't see much hope. But I'm not a neurologist, I don't know.

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That sign being held by the nice-looking lady in front of that guy reminded me of an article I came accross yesterday on Google News...
Cremation Would Cover Up Possible Abuse

Nevermind sticking with the facts when you can demonize those who disagree with you.

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Originally posted by X-D:
Haha! Don't these people have jobs?

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Of course not XD... Hippies never worked.

so those people standing outside the Hospice are hippies?

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like i said, they must be stoned or something cause they seem to be the only 2 smiling in that pic. stoners always find the cheapest entertainment in the oddest things. They also appear to be among the youngest in that crowd also? minus the 2 children up front.

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Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Hahahaha.....hey what shirt was that guy wearing??? Ramones? or Turbonegro?

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im pretty sure that hippy is wearing a Ramones shirt. because the Ramones were ,you know, hippies.

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Brain damaged severely yes but nobody knows to what extent, she was minimally responsive to stimuli, her body was not near death at all, basic tests to determine the 'persistent vegetative state' were never performed, yet still that phrase was tossed around the media as fact....

She was neither on a respirator or in a coma...just being taken care of as a small child would be......

Her 'so-called' wish to die in such a case she supposedly told her husband...according to her husband.

Never mind the thousands of people dying of horrific and easily treatable illnessess every year, because they can't access medical treatment as a result of poverty.

Or all the people who die of starvation and dehydration in the world because of a lack of safe drinking water and food (which, I will note, the USA still does not accept as a basic human right).

Or all the people who die in wars, are murdered by their own governments, are denied basic rights on account of their religion, sex, race, etc.

No. One man and a panel of doctors took a decision to finally grant his wife some peace after fifteen years of enforced nonexistence. AND WE MUST PROTEST.

Here's what the only man who actually has a right to have a say here says:

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Angered by the latest political developments in Washington, Michael Schiavo said Saturday that it isn't just the Florida governor who should visit his wife to learn about the case.

Jeb Bush's brother, President Bush, should visit Terri Schiavo, too, he said.

"Come down, President Bush," Schiavo said in a telephone interview. "Come talk to me. Meet my wife. Talk to my wife and see if you get an answer. Ask her to lift her arm to shake your hand. She won't do it."

She won't, Schiavo said, because she can't.

He made a similar offer to the governor last week, saying lawmakers interferring in his wife's life know nothing about the case. So far, Gov. Bush hasn't responded to the offer.

President Bush has indicated he will sign any federal legislation to keep Terri Schiavo alive.

Weary after an emotional visit with his wife, Schiavo said he is astonished that politicians want to interfere in such a private matter.

"Instead of worrying about my wife, who was granted her wishes by the state courts the past seven years, they should worry about the pedophiles killing young girls," Schiavo said, referring to a local case. "Why doesn't Congress worry about people not having health insurance? Or the budget? Let's talk about all the children who don't have homes."

He said U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who is leading a charge to extend Terri Schiavo's life, is a "little slithering snake" pandering for votes.

"To make comments that Terri would want to live, how do they know?" Schiavo said of the members of Congress who want to keep his wife alive.

"Have they ever met her?" Schiavo said. "What color are her eyes? What's her middle name? What's her favorite color? They don't have any clue who Terri is. They should all be ashamed of themselves."

Schiavo said he was going to stay at his wife's side through the entire ordeal and said he wouldn't back down in his fight to have her wishes carried out.

"Terri died 15 years ago," Schiavo said, referring to the collapse and cardiac arrest that doctors say virtually destroyed her brain. "It's time for her to be with the Lord like she wanted to be."

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We also heard them use this little catch phrase during the 2000 presidential election when they defended the opinion of the supreme courts decision that Bush was the winner of that election.

Fast forward to March 2005. Where is the talk about "rule of law"?? Whatever happened to accepting the judgement of the court? In the Schiavo case, the judgement of every single court that had either heard the case, heard the appeals, or simply refused to hear another appeal all came to the same conclusion. Judgement has been rendered and it is a sound judgement. Nothing further to debate here. We're talking about courts that go all the way from a County Circuit Court to State Court of Appeals to State Supreme Court to a Federal District Court all the way to the US Supreme Court.

This isn't the workings of one single, out of control, 'acturvist' judge. We're talking about a case that has made its way through the judicial checks and balances and come out in the end with the same result.

I guess it's pretty hard for sore losers like Tom DeLay to say the words "rule of law" these days when you're pouting and whining like a little crybaby just because you didn't get your way.

Boy, democracy's a bitch sometimes, isn't it?"

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Originally posted by Lycanthropy:
Yes, but some scientists still say that smoking doesn't cause cancer, despite the vast quantities of empirical evidence to the contrary.

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Technically, smoking does not cause cancer - it's a contributing factor.

Fine line of difference, but an essential observation.

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Originally posted by Lycanthropy:
Or all the people who die of starvation and dehydration in the world because of a lack of safe drinking water and food (which, I will note, the USA still does not accept as a basic human right)"

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More twisting of the facts lyc ?

Canada is the only nation that did not sign the UN resolution for water as a right, and they have been refusing for years.

canada has the second largest supply of clean unprocessed water in the world, but the communist government up there consider it a vital part in sustaining their economy. these issues came out on "world water day" not long ago.

the-FACTS

the USA has been feeding the world since WW2 on a regular basis with droploads of food from their planes.

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ARTICLE:

Each day, nearly 6,000 children in developing countries die due to lack of clean water and sanitation. These deaths are not due to water scarcity. Rather they are a damning testimony to the lack of adequate efforts to develop appropriate water-delivery mechanisms. and to address pollution of water sources.

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Kinda makes Iraqi war seem like childs play when i think of the anti-war images of children caught in the crossfire in islamic countries. But atlease 175.000 people so far have raised an eyebrow to this and we know the rest of the world has a hawkeye on canada's policy.

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Never mind the thousands of people dying of horrific and easily treatable illnessess every year, because they can't access medical treatment

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And what about "the Junkification" ?

communist governments replaying a failed experiment when the people who want help to get off heroin can not get into a treatment facility but instead get more free heroin ?

you may have missed this little thingy by paying too much attention to everyone elses flaws while canada is getting flushed right down the toilet.

$8-million, thats not too bad... better to help these people dispose of themselves i guess than to deal with their problems ?

theREALITYcheck.org

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murdered by "their own" governments

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