quote:

---

More and more people in the US are convinced that the American authorities are concealing their involvement in the 9/11 tragedy. Statements from witnesses, marked confidential for several years, now show that controlled demolition may have taken place. The US government had long anticipated such an incident – as the Republican document from 2000 Rebuilding America's defences indicates. The 9/11Truth organisation believes that the US probably orchestrated an incident of this type in order to justify the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the curtailing of civil liberties within the US through the introduction of the Patriot Act. It has now emerged that in 1962 the America's most senior military leader devised a plan for a premeditated attack on Americans, which would have involved shooting down a passenger plane, so that the blame could be cast on Cuba. So why should this be excluded today? Many also believe that Pakistani intelligence cooperated with the CIA and Al-Qaeda because it transferred significant sums of money to the hijacker Mohammed Atta in the days leading up to the 9/11. They even had Bin Laden under surveillance during the time of his treatment in a military hospital in Peshawar, Pakistan, in September 2001.

---

complete article

--------------------

One day I might sit down and work out the forces involved but I am sure they are pretty damn substantial. Boeing 767 with a full load of fuel, taken into a structure at 500mph at a height 1,000ft...That's a helluva lot of energy dissipation going on...

--------------------

Anti semitism is on the rise and I think the Jews have partially brought it on themselves in recent years. Their actions in the Middle East have been somewhat provocative and the recent events in Lebanon merely add fuel to the fire. Not that I am advocating or supporting any kind of anti semitism, it is as vile as any other form of racism. I just think the powers that be within Israel and the West need to realise they cannot carry on like they have over the last 2-3 years. People are growing ever more indifferent to the Jewish and more are starting to pander to stories like 'No Jews were killed in 9/11'. That is exactly how the upswell of anti semitism started in 1933. Need I say more?

--------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by blazky:
Ok here is the real bomb that I was looking for, for so long, it is about dirty things the CIA has been involved in.

video 2hrs-17mins long

---

I think a small sense of perspective is needed - that being if anybody thought Governments / Law Enforcement / Defence or similarly aligned agencies weren't corrupt then they were either naiive or just plain stupid. That said it is painfully clear that the current US administration is the worst we have experienced - possibly ever. In a separate thread I have said that they have used 9/11 in a way that is reprehensible - I am being polite. It is becoming plain offensive. Whatever the reasons for 9/11 - and I was pleased that he did not visit the possible conspiracies - the thing that was meant to unite us, namely the fight against terrorism, is becoming the thing that divides us. The boundaries of what is terrorism are becoming blurred by the very intervention of this administration and it's 'war on terror'. With each day that passes I am beginning to wonder who is the 'real and present danger'.....

A long watch but worthwhile.

--------------------

the same is happening in this countries,
rough translation:

Loose Change will be seen for more than 100 million people This set of documents, that it vendeu thousand of copies (through its official site) and if became more in one of the seen films in the InterNet, has in these last days appeared in the grate of some television stations: German ZDF transmitted it it 16 of August; also the German N24 to fer it it 17 of August; the Canvas Belgian the 21 of August; whisker SF the 23 of August; the Planète Frenchman emitizá it it 6 of September; dutch BNN the 10 of September; e in such a way the Australian Canal History as Swedish canal TV4 Fakta had chosen proper the 11 of September to show it. E that is only the beginning - eight other televisions had confirmed that they go to emit Loose Change: Zembla (Holland), VRT (Belgium), TV2 (Norway), Exa TV (Mexico), Noga TV (Israel), Geo TV (Pakistan), MBC Middle East and the Plus Canal of the Polónia. More than 100 million people will go in the next days to discover the truth on the 11 of September.

Not that documentary in my opinion. Too much supposition posing as facts. The government could release all the footage they liked but there would still be those who would find a flaw and merely use it to add fuel to their conspiracy. Sure you can find a million experts to claim and counter claim about the possibilities of the twin towers collapsing. Fact is they are just that - claims. Until someone flies a large passenger plane laden with jet fuel into a skyscraper at 1,000ft with a velocity of 500mph as a scientific experiment nobody knows the facts - period.

A classic example of a conspiracy that surfaced in a book recently, and one that has rumbled on for decades, is one about the Titanic, where it was alleged that the ship that actually sank was Titanic's sister ship, the Olympic. The White star line had lost a claim against the British Navy when the Olympic was so badly damaged in a collision with a cruiser that it was no longer fit to sail. The White Star Line lost the hearing against the Navy so the insurance never paid out, leaving the company massively out of pocket. So it was claimed that the Olympic was changed to look like the Titanic in every detail possible and the plan would be that it would be scuttled in the North Atlantic, whereas the Titanic would enjoy a 25 year life as the Olympic. The story would then be that Titanic (Olympic) struck an iceberg and would eventually sink. Nobody could ever claim the boat that sank wasn't the Titanic since there would be no way of confirming the identity of the boat lying at the bottom of the North Atlantic. Sure enough, the insurance paid out. The evidence looked overwhelming and they had pretty much everything covered, even down to the positioning of the boats, but on a programme here in the UK recently the conspiracy was pretty much debunked. However, even though the many exploration teams who have seen and explored the Titanic have been able to conclusively prove that the boat lying at the bottom of the ocean is indeed the correct one, and notwithstanding the findings of the programme mentioned above this conspiracy still has it's believers.

So it is clear to me - find enough circumstantial evidence and you can create a plausible conspiracy. Lets face it there is plenty of that as far as 9/11 is concerned. But it still doesn't add up and I still find myself returning to what I have believed pretty much since the day it happened - that being that 9/11 is a conspiracy of no more than incompetence of the US government and the agencies that are supposed to protect the country. There was only one statement I agreed with throughout that documentary - and that occurs within the first 2 minutes with a quote from whitehouse adviser Richard Clark. It reads simply:

Your Government failed you and I failed you.

That to me says it all.

--------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by KnickerZohnonnof:
The truth being?

Not that documentary in my opinion. Too much supposition posing as facts. The government could release all the footage they liked but there would still be those who would find a flaw and merely use it to add fuel to their conspiracy. Sure you can find a million experts to claim and counter claim about the possibilities of the twin towers collapsing. Fact is they are just that - claims. Until someone flies a large passenger plane laden with jet fuel into a skyscraper at 1,000ft with a velocity of 500mph as a scientific experiment nobody knows the facts - period.

A classic example of a conspiracy that surfaced in a book recently, and one that has rumbled on for decades, is one about the Titanic, where it was alleged that the ship that actually sank was Titanic's sister ship, the Olympic. The White star line had lost a claim against the British Navy when the Olympic was so badly damaged in a collision with a cruiser that it was no longer fit to sail. The White Star Line lost the hearing against the Navy so the insurance never paid out, leaving the company massively out of pocket. So it was claimed that the Olympic was changed to look like the Titanic in every detail possible and the plan would be that it would be scuttled in the North Atlantic, whereas the Titanic would enjoy a 25 year life as the Olympic. The story would then be that Titanic (Olympic) struck an iceberg and would eventually sink. Nobody could ever claim the boat that sank wasn't the Titanic since there would be no way of confirming the identity of the boat lying at the bottom of the North Atlantic. Sure enough, the insurance paid out. The evidence looked overwhelming and they had pretty much everything covered, even down to the positioning of the boats, but on a programme here in the UK recently the conspiracy was pretty much debunked. However, even though the many exploration teams who have seen and explored the Titanic have been able to conclusively prove that the boat lying at the bottom of the ocean is indeed the correct one, and notwithstanding the findings of the programme mentioned above this conspiracy still has it's believers.

So it is clear to me - find enough circumstantial evidence and you can create a plausible conspiracy. Lets face it there is plenty of that as far as 9/11 is concerned. But it still doesn't add up and I still find myself returning to what I have believed pretty much since the day it happened - that being that 9/11 is a conspiracy of no more than incompetence of the US government and the agencies that are supposed to protect the country. There was only one statement I agreed with throughout that documentary - and that occurs within the first 2 minutes with a quote from whitehouse adviser Richard Clark. It reads simply:

Your Government failed you and I failed you.

That to me says it all.

---

I hope I'm right too, truth is, just like all of us here I don't really know. I'm just going on all the evidence I see and making a judgement. It's the same for people like Kula, just that he sees it from the other side.

If he is right and this was a conspiracy then democracy as we know it is dead.

--------------------